Dave Sez

As a former student of two ACC schools, I've noticed each era of alums from these institutions has a distinctly different attitude and perspective on the schools. Since I can only speak difinitively about the alums I've met and their characteristics where I've attended, I have no idea about the general make-up of the State fan base, alums and students. However, as I read part of the SFN blog (I could only stomach about half) two thoughts developed. One derived from a bloggers comments that State was two for two when going to the final four and winning the national title. From his perspective, State was invincible, if only they could get over that last hurdle. This helped shed some light for me on the mentality that Herb had to go. They are craving a coach that can get them over that last hurdle of getting to a final four, since the National championship is a layup from there.

The second thought came with the reply from another State supporter, who chastised his brother-in-arms for sloppy remembering, pointing out that State HAD been to another final four (no title) previously, and to get his State facts right. This interaction made me wonder if part of what we are noticing is that the State fan base most likely to blog has a limited memory of State's overall history, therefore has a decidedly overdeveloped sense of achievement (and a bit of a sensitive side). Older alums may have a bit more grounded perspective, and also realize that where in the "olden days", conference achievement was the crowning event within the ACC and Big Four schools, a slightly more achievable goal. Now, an expanded ACC field recruits students (and players) nationally and the NCAA field has grown to 64, and the emphasis on doing well in the ACC, while still important, has dropped. The new paradigm is that the NCAA tourney is the end all be all of basketball, while emphasis upon doing well the the ACC has dropped somewhat. The in-state rivalry that existed among the formerly regional fan base has consolidated in the Duke-UNC game, and grown to include the rest of the nation as passionate onlookers. All this just to say, State's myrad of fans that blog might not have the historical perspective necessary to see that the competitive State of old wouldn't even make it in today's new college basketball world. State's history, while brave, exciting and wonderful is just that: history. And it would be a thing indeed, like bottling lightning, to find a coach that could challenge for national supremacy each year. Herb was real good. I just pray that the new State coach can be appreciated for whatever effort he turns out.

Yes, I can see how our somewhat quirky fanbase would be a little puzzling and amusing to "outsiders." I like to think that's part of our charm, so to speak.

Not to speak for all of SFN, but what I personally could not (and still cannot) stand is the excuse making, and calls from outsiders to simply accept second-class status. Whereas I firmly believe (even without pointing to State's 2 national titles) that NC State has every institutional advantage to compete for championships. Only the three "golden" programs (UNC, Kentucky, UCLA) have it significantly better from an institutional standpoint (schools like Duke and UConn are more a reflection of their Hall of Fame coaches than institutional advantages).

The presence of Duke and UNC are no more of an excuse for NC State than any other ACC team - which is to say, no excuse at all. We play said teams 3 or 4 times a season. In NCAAT play, we can't meet either one until a regional final, or usually later. Recruiting is mostly national in basketball.

True, an NC State coach can't expect to have a DISMAL record (like Sendek) against Duke and UNC without feeling some heat, but it doesn't have to be .500+, either. And truthfully, said record against the blue bullies was merely symptomatic of Sendek's larger trouble in beating top-caliber teams (which one has to do in order to compete for titles).

So, to me, settling for "pretty good" when it was fairly clear that Sendek had hit its ceiling made no sense. It was best for all parties involved to move in another direction, and I think Sendek and NC State are better off for it.

Both good posts.

To be clear, I agreed with most State fans that Sendek needed to go. He'd reached his ceiling and while it wasn't bad, it wasn't terrific either. If you are going to prove to be only pretty good, you need to have other stuff (like charisma, exciting style of play, etc.) to compensate, but Herb had none of that. He was only about the game, but the games just weren't that fun.

As for State fans, I don't dislike them at all, I just find the group psychology interesting and amusing. I think it's great that despite two decades of being basically a second-class program, the fans still expect to be the best. That's rare and commendable.

To rise above mediocrity...what an outrageous thought! I've always just wanted to be second-class my whole life. Forget all that achievement stuff, it's overrated.

Sportsfan wrote:

To rise above mediocrity...what an outrageous thought! I've always just wanted to be second-class my whole life. Forget all that achievement stuff, it's overrated.

No one is suggesting that NC State, or any other program, should settle for mediocrity. Not at all. Every fan base wants to support a winner. That should go without saying.

It's just that whenever the subject comes up, a lot of State fans are quick to anger, get sarcastic, quote history, list enemies (media, NCAA, etc), etc. It makes you seem very insecure.

Insecure, no. Defensive, sure. Shoot me.

Sportsfan wrote:

Insecure, no. Defensive, sure. Shoot me.

Funny you should write that. I thought that exact thing after I wrote my post. You're right. Insecure isn't the right word.

But the daily theme "we shouldn't suggest mediocrity" that SFN spouts did give me the impression of insecurity. The only person that I saw consistently say that NC State basketball should take a place behind UNC and Duke was the man running the athletic department.

As a Tarheel fan, I want to see State thrive. It's a shame that Fowler ran such a terrible search - hope Coach Lowe comes through.

They sound like Red Sox fans.

"Defensive" is probably a fair characterization.