November 16, 2006
ACC Basketball Review - 11/16/2006
How about a quick rundown of all the games played so far? Who's up for that? I'll sprinkle in some comments about the games of interest.
Tuesday, Nov. 7
Maryland 102, Hampton 75
Wednesday, Nov. 8
Maryland 81, Vermont 63
As I wrote about before, those are two nice wins for Maryland after struggling in their exhibitions. Of course that second win looks a lot better now than it did at the time.
Friday, Nov. 10
BC 86, New Hampshire 47
N.C. State 92, Wofford 88
State was led in scoring by Ben McCauley's 26 points. I guess that's a good thing.
Va. Tech 94, Coppin State 43
The Hokies gave up just 14 points in the first half.
Ga. Tech 83, Elon 49
Freshmen studs Javaris Crittenton and Thaddeus Young had a nice start, combining for 32 points. "Javaris & Thaddeus" sounds like an Amish law firm.
Clemson 83, Arkansas State 44
Saturday, Nov. 11
Wake 91, James Madison 82
Wake was down at the half, but came back. Maybe they have some heart this year. Apparently Kyle Visser was reanimated and freshman point guard Ishmael Smith had an excellent debut with 11 assists. If Smith can keep playing like that, the Deacs can keep Harvey Hale at the 2 where he is much more comfortable.
Clemson 77, Monmouth 65
Miami 73, FIU 50
Sunday, Nov. 12
Clemson 74, Old Dominion 70
The Tigers are apparently going to play every single night in an attempt to get enough wins to qualify for the dance this year.
Maryland 93, Florida A&M 54
UVa 93, Arizona 90
The best matchup of the season so far for the ACC resulted in the best result so far. UVA was getting blasted in the first half. They were down 19 and Arizona was making them look silly. The Cavaliers fought back though and chipped and chipped until they had the lead. They held it for an excellent win and a great way to open their new building. If this game is any indication, Dave Leitao really is an excellent coach. Arizona had four of the best five players in the game.
BTW, I nearly choked on my popcorn when I saw that they retired Curtis Staples' jersey during this game. Curtis Staples? Sure, he was a nice player and set the NCAA three-point record, but he was a one-time third-team All-ACC player and was never even the best player on the team. Only later did I read that they made a distinction. They retired his jersey, not his number. It's a new honor, I guess as a way to fill the rafters in the new John Paul Jones arena. Still, there are many Cavaliers who would have been better choices. At Carolina, you have to be a two-time All-American or national player of the year to get up in the rafters. I know Virginia isn't UNC, but come on. At least go with someone who made all-conference first team once.
FSU 85, McNeese State 65
Duke 86, Columbia 43
Just like at UNC and Georgia Tech, Duke's trying to work in a bunch of talented freshmen. The results are going to be uneven for a little while.
Monday, Nov. 13
Vermont 77, BC 63
Doh! Tyler Coppenrath is gone and so is coach Tom Brennan, so this wasn't supposed to happen. Still, BC is trying to adjust to not having seniors Craig Smith and Louis Hinnant and obviously things aren't perfect yet. This is still a good team. Remember, Sean Williams and Akida McLain were suspended.
Duke 72, Ga. Southern 48
Notice that the Blue Devils have given up 43 and 48 points in their first two games. This is a more athletic and better defensive team than recent squads.
GT 100, Jackson State 70
FSU 73, Illinois State 59
Illinois State was led by guard Dominitrix Johnson's 32 points. Dominitrix.
Tuesday, Nov. 14
Wake 86, Bucknell 83 (OT)
Wshew! Hey, like I said, this team is showing more fight already than last year's team. They may not be a great team, but the first step for this program is just to learn again how to win.
UNC 103, Sacred Heart 81
Carolina's defense is not good. On the other hand, 11 Tar Heels played at least 7 minutes.
Miami 96, Alcorn 57
Miami was led in scoring by someone named Jack McClinton. Who?
FSU 59, SMU 52
VT 95, West Fla. 47
Two game, two big blowouts for the Hokies. Maybe their run of bad luck has finally ended. If so, they could be a good, balanced team. They certainly should be excellent on the defensive end.
Wednesday, Nov. 15
UNC 73, Winthrop 66
This was my first chance to see the young studs. I give them mixed reviews. Brandan Wright was awesome and is only going to get better. Wow. Wayne Ellington has a pretty stroke, but is going to have to learn how to play the rest of the game. I was most interested in seeing Tywon Lawson and came away underwhelmed. I'd heard how good and fast he was, but he wasn't nearly as good or fast as Raymond Felton was at the beginning of his freshman year. I'm sure Lawson will get better, but he's not the superstar I expected. I now understand why Bobby Frasor is still starting over him.
I'm going to go ahead and put out a warning right now. It's one game in and I'm already sick of hearing how Tyler Hansbrough is such a hard worker. Yeah, I get it. You don't need to mention it 47 times a game. I have eyes.
Oh, and beware of this Winthrop team. They are pretty damn good. And in case you didn't know, Gregg Marshall is a hell of a coach. That team was very well prepared.
Clem. 67, Furman 58
Clemson is on pace to win 147 games this year.
| Fats Durston wrote: |
| Hey, thanks for the roundup. It's a wonderful service to those of us who were so busy we didn't even realize our alma mater's pre-season had begun... |
You're welcome. I'm glad to know that someone's reading!
What's your alma mater?
Leitao subbed like Paul Hewitt in the first half: constantly. It helped as Arizona was noticeably gassed the last ten minutes.
Finally, Harris and Tat look like linebackers, not basketball guards.
| Lee J. Cockrell wrote: |
| Have to agree on Staples. A great shooter, a good rebounding guard, a hustling defender, but he doesn't fit in with Stith, Sampson, Wilkerson, Lamp, etc. They just wanted to do something special for the opening game, and who else would you have picked? Chris Williams? Cornel Parker?? Jeff Jones?!? (Here's a fact that will blow your mind: Parker is ninth in career assists at Virginia.) |
Believe me, I thought through a similar list of poor choices. Let's be honest, there aren't many good ones. The best though - Harold Deane. After that, I'd probably go with Junior Burrough and possibly Roger Mason before Staples. There's no question that both Cory and Courtney Alexander were better players, but neither finished their career properly. You could say the same for Travis Watson, who imploded his senior year.
| Lee J. Cockrell wrote: |
| Leitao subbed like Paul Hewitt in the first half: constantly. It helped as Arizona was noticeably gassed the last ten minutes.
Finally, Harris and Tat look like linebackers, not basketball guards. |
I was a little disappointed in Tat. I was expecting more, but he was pretty much a nonfactor.
On the other hand, it looks like Singletary has really improved his game management. He's still no Bobby Hurley, but he played more like a real point guard in that game.
Your mention of Jeff Jones has me going back further than I was thinking. How about these guys (in addition to the ones we liste already)?
John Crotty (probably the best choice out there)
Jeff Jones
Lee Raker (maybe)
Othell Wilson (actually an even better choice than Crotty)
Richard Morgan (if only for that UNC game and the NCAA run)
Disqualified:
Olden Polynice
As a Duke Alum I'm a bit reluctant to make this comment, but so far this very short season I have been pleasantly surprised that Duke looks as good as it does, and that Carolina doesn't look quite as good as I had expected. It's still early, and I know that things will change, but it may be a bit early to hand the ACC title to UNC.
If you want to go by career points+assists+rebounds, it would go Burrough, Williams, Deane, Crotty:
http://www.sportsstats.com/bball/leader.lists/PAR
Each candidate has obvious weaknesses, which is why they haven't been retired already.
Crotty: great 4 year starter, best guard in transition ever, but no real signature accomplishment
Deane: his first two years were better than his last two.
Morgan, Wilson, Staples: flashes of greatness in their careers were too brief
Burrough: three decent years and one really good one, not enough to retire his jersey (though it's not entirely his fault the 92-94 teams were such poor shooters)
Williams: stats declined through his career (party because the team got better), more damning is that his teams never won a postseason game.
Of note: going by the P+A+R list above, Bryant Stith may be the most underappreciated player in ACC history. 7th all time (the only person with more P+A+R under 6'10" is Johnny Dawkins), 3rd all time leading scorer and he wasn't on the ACC's 50 best players ever team?
On the subject of retiring jerseys I still have some heartburn about Rodney Rodgers being retired at Wake. He left after three years and thats enough to not get your number retired to me. Similarly, Chris Paul should not have his number retired. I appreciate what both of these guys brought to the program but I'm inflexible on the 4-year requirement. I'd rather have less numbers in the rafters and have the honor magnified.
Lastly, Maryland looks like a team reborn. Strawberry is a Forward now? Wasn't he running the point at one time? I've always liked that kid. I actually saw Daryl courtside for his game which is cool if he's ready to be a role model for his son.
| Lee J. Cockrell wrote: |
| oops, hit preview too fast.
Each candidate has obvious weaknesses, which is why they haven't been retired already. Crotty: great 4 year starter, best guard in transition ever, but no real signature accomplishment Deane: his first two years were better than his last two. Morgan, Wilson, Staples: flashes of greatness in their careers were too brief Burrough: three decent years and one really good one, not enough to retire his jersey (though it's not entirely his fault the 92-94 teams were such poor shooters) Williams: stats declined through his career (party because the team got better), more damning is that his teams never won a postseason game. Of note: going by the P+A+R list above, Bryant Stith may be the most underappreciated player in ACC history. 7th all time (the only person with more P+A+R under 6'10" is Johnny Dawkins), 3rd all time leading scorer and he wasn't on the ACC's 50 best players ever team? |
Good stuff, Lee.
In fairness, I don't think can equate the "flashes of greatness" of Richard Morgan and Othell Wilson to Curtis Staples. Both Morgan and Wilson made first team All-ACC and both led their teams deep in the NCAAs - Morgan to the regional finals and Wilson all the way to the FF (and damn near past that). Also both guys were clearly the man at some point. Staples was second fiddle to Deane for three years and then at best an equal partner to Norman Nolan in his senior year. I love the guy, but he just wasn't that good.
And a hat tip to Junior Burrough. That senior year was incredible and i haven't enjoyed watching any post player more ever. He had moves on top of moves, which was important because he couldn't jump over a phone book. I can't believe that guy hasn't become a big man coach/guru. Nobody had better footwork (and nobody ever had more shots blocked).
| Deacon wrote: |
| On the subject of retiring jerseys I still have some heartburn about Rodney Rodgers being retired at Wake. He left after three years and thats enough to not get your number retired to me. Similarly, Chris Paul should not have his number retired. I appreciate what both of these guys brought to the program but I'm inflexible on the 4-year requirement. I'd rather have less numbers in the rafters and have the honor magnified. |
Boy, that's a good debate as well. I mostly agree with you except if you keep that requirement, it almost guarantees no modern retired numbers. It's very rare to get a four-year star anymore. Rogers was a hell of a player and a worthy retiree, I think. I agree that two years is just too short though. Paul can be honored, but not that way.
And a quick response to Deacon about D.J. Strawberry: I think D.J. stopped waiting for his father to be the role model, and started being the role model for his day instead. Let's hope it takes, and Dad can live up to his son's affection.
I'd have no problem with limiting sub-four-year players to retired jerseys instead of numbers, but just acknowledge that you aren't going to have too many. Off the top of my head, I can think of four number-retiring-worthy players in the past 10-15 years who stayed four years - Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, Juan Dixon and J. J. Redick. Maybe Julius Hodge or Steve Blake.
Actually, maybe that's not so bad. Retired numbers should be rare.
Oh, and Jason Williams is an interesting case- didn't stay four years, but did graduate in three. Would he count?
Generally, though, I think you're right- four-year stars are rare and getting rarer, and graduation should probably be a requirement for retirement.
I'd say Jason Williams is number-retirment worthy. NPOY, 2-time first team AA, national championship ... quite a resume. And he'd have broken Johnny Dawkins' scoring record before Redick had he played another year.
I don't think the three-year graduation thing should be much of a factor. Obviously it's good to leave on good terms, but what you do on the court should trump (just about) everything else.
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