Dave Sez

I'm fully in favor of gun regulation, but until we've got that, it is worth noting that lots and lots of people own such things legally- and Pata enjoyed going to shooting ranges. Doesn't mean he's not a thug, but there may well be reasonable and perfectly legal explanations for this.

tieguy wrote:

I'm fully in favor of gun regulation, but until we've got that, it is worth noting that lots and lots of people own such things legally- and Pata enjoyed going to shooting ranges. Doesn't mean he's not a thug, but there may well be reasonable and perfectly legal explanations for this.

I'm not saying his gun ownership was illegal, but a college student with an assault rifle, shotgun and a handgun? Come on. He's taking that shotgun to the shooting range?

You're right. If college students ever have too much of something they enjoy legally, it'll be the end of the world. :) More to the point, I'm sure half the team at Texas, Arkansas, and Nebraska have arsenals like this. But they don't have the UM rep (and to be fair, no one shot them to death) so it isn't a big deal. I'm not sure why UM should be held to a higher standard than everyone else; high, certainly, and higher than (say) the 80s at UM. To expect UM to be like, say, Ohio State is reasonable (and I'd argue they're already there, if not better.) But to expect UM to become Duke is nutty.

[Tangent: I just went to the UM blog at the Sun-Sentinel, and there are 782 comments on their post about the Coker replacement. In two days. Insane.]

tieguy wrote:

I'm not sure why UM should be held to a higher standard than everyone else

I think you know why. And you'd have a tough time proving the "higher" part at this point. It's not really unreasonable to find fault in a school that has players involved in a shootout, the most impressive football brawl in recent memory and a player shot and killed (and said player found to own three guns) all in one season.

And that just builds on the Seventh Floor Crew and Willie Williams stuff from the last couple of years.

Let's see, Miami has had fewer arrests than Maryland, NC State, North Carolina, Virginia and Virginia Tech in the past six years.

Can we vote to remove the Tobacco road schools for just being who they are too?

the most impressive football brawl in recent memory
That's exactly the kind of thing I mean. Take away the ESPN coverage and replace the large black men with scrawnier white men, and nearly exactly the same thing happened the same weekend between Ivy league teams. But Miami's was on TV and featured large, scary looking black men, so it was BIG NEWS. You remember it because ESPN made you remember it over the many other comparable brawls, not because it was actually memorable.

And Northern Colorado had one player stab another player- no one goes around talking about how Northern Colorado should be thrown out of their conference. If that had happened at Miami, every single step in that case would have been on the front page of ESPN every single minute for a full year, like the Kobe case, except more so.

So yes, does Miami have problems? Of course. Does Miami suffer from a double standard? Absolutely. And it is a shame that lots of otherwise reasonable, rational people contribute to that.

tieguy wrote:

the most impressive football brawl in recent memory That's exactly the kind of thing I mean. Take away the ESPN coverage and replace the large black men with scrawnier white men, and nearly exactly the same thing happened the same weekend between Ivy league teams. But Miami's was on TV and featured large, scary looking black men, so it was BIG NEWS. You remember it because ESPN made you remember it over the many other comparable brawls, not because it was actually memorable.

Here's a video of that fight. See if you can spot the differences, other than race, between this "melee" and the Miami-FIU one. This "fight" lasted maybe 20 seconds and about 95% of the players on both teams were just standing there. I don't see any stomping or helmet (or crutch) swinging. And the crowd is booing instead of cheering.

I'm sure you know this, but when two D-1A schools, one a major power, get into a fight in a televised game, it's a bit bigger story than a mediocre Ivy League team getting into a shoving match with Holy Cross.

tieguy wrote:

And Northern Colorado had one player stab another player- no one goes around talking about how Northern Colorado should be thrown out of their conference. If that had happened at Miami, every single step in that case would have been on the front page of ESPN every single minute for a full year, like the Kobe case, except more so.

And how is it that you and I and everyone else know about this story? Do you know anything else ever about Northern Colorado football? Or would you say that this actually got pretty much coverage in the national media?

tieguy wrote:

So yes, does Miami have problems? Of course. Does Miami suffer from a double standard? Absolutely. And it is a shame that lots of otherwise reasonable, rational people contribute to that.

It's a shame that we have to argue about whether it's OK for schools to have players get in trouble this often. It doesn't matter to me if it's Miami or not. I would have written about any ACC player shot and killed during the season, particularly if he was later found to own an assault rifle, shotgun and handgun. If you find evidence that he liked to go duck hunting with the shotgun, deer hunting with the rifle and target shooting with the handgun, I'll apologize for bringing it up.

As for the other schools that have had players arrested, that sucks too. There's a reason why Virginia Tech has a similar rep to Miami. It's widely perceived as a team full of thugs who receive very meager punishment for their crimes. Any other school who has these sort of problems over a long period time, especially if that school is otherwise successful, gets that rep. Ask Nebraska, Colorado, Oklahoma or Florida State.

Miami has every opportunity to rid themselves of their rep. They were on their way there for a while, but the last couple of years have brought it back. If the new coach clamps down on things and wins again, the rep will (eventually) go away. It will take a while though.

Jason: The dead have no warrants.