March 06, 2007
All-ACC Teams Announced
As you probably heard, the ACC released it's All-ACC Teams yesterday. The first team might be the least controversial in ACC history. It's especially surprising with twelve teams to choose from now, but the top five guys were pretty much a given - Tyler Hansbrough, Jared Dudley, Al Thornton, Sean Singletary and Zabian Dowdell. They all had between 302 and 318 points in the voting. There was a big gap down to 232 points for JR Reynolds on the second team.
It's really hard to think of a year with less overall controversy in the voting. The local radio guys were trying to work up some ire about Kyle Visser on the third team and Jon Scheyer beating out Thad Young and Grievis Vasquez for the All-Freshman Team, but those are pretty minor gripes.
The defensive team surprised me a bit. I thought DJ Strawberry would be the runaway vote leader, but he actually came in fourth. It looks like voters think steals=great defense. That has some merit of course, but there's a hell of a lot more to playing D than just taking the ball away. In fact, you can play awesome, shutdown D without collecting a single steal.
One thing I miss is that they used to release the full results, including every player who received votes. It's always a trip to see who got one or two votes from suck-up beat reporters.
BTW, I hope to get the season-end Prouty (and Irwin) ratings up later this week. It'll be interesting to see how that comes out relative to these results. I have a hunch they'll be pretty close this year.
All-ACC Team
First team
*Jared Dudley, Boston College (106), 318
*Tyler Hansbrough, North Carolina (106), 318
*Al Thornton, Florida State (106), 318
Sean Singletary, Virginia (100), 312
Zabian Dowdell, Virginia Tech (90), 302
Second team
J.R. Reynolds, Virginia (20), 232
D.J. Strawberry, Maryland (2), 180
Tyrese Rice, Boston College, 177
Josh McRoberts, Duke, 159
Brandan Wright, North Carolina, 150
Third team
Kyle Visser, Wake Forest, 120
Javaris Crittenton, Georgia Tech, 104
Brandon Costner, N.C. State, 94
Jamon Gordon, Virginia Tech, 61
Jack McClinton, Miami, 48
Honorable mention (20 or more points)
Ben McCauley, N.C. State, 36
James Mays, Clemson, 34
DeMarcus Nelson, Duke, 34
James Gist, Maryland, 28
Ekene Ibekwe, Maryland, 22
All-Freshman Team
*Javaris Crittenton, Georgia Tech, 106
*Brandan Wright, North Carolina, 106
Brandon Costner, N.C. State, 95
Ty Lawson, North Carolina, 64
Jon Scheyer, Duke, 54
Honorable mention (20 or more votes)
Thaddeus Young, Georgia Tech, 42
Greivis Vasquez, Maryland, 37
All-Defensive Team
Jamon Gordon, Virginia Tech, 96
Ekene Ibekwe, Maryland, 65
Zabian Dowdell, Virginia Tech, 59
D.J. Strawberry, Maryland, 55
Josh McRoberts, Duke, 46
Honorable mention (20 or more votes)
Mario West, Georgia Tech, 33
DeMarcus Nelson, Duke, 25
James Mays, Clemson, 24
Vernon Hamilton, Clemson, 20
* unanimous selection
Comments
I think it's borderline ridiculous that the most defensively efficient team in the conference (UNC) managed to place absolutely zero players on the All-Defensive Team or even the Honorable Mention list.
| Jerry wrote: |
| I think it's borderline ridiculous that the most defensively efficient team in the conference (UNC) managed to place absolutely zero players on the All-Defensive Team or even the Honorable Mention list. |
The only Heel who should have been mentioned is Ginyard. The rest of the guys combine to play good defense usually, but none really stand out to me. Maybe Danny Green. Of course, at times, the Heels have played some pretty terrible team D.
What about McRoberts? Why isn't he on the 1st team? Not talented enough,or is is poor coaching?
Scout.com--Frank Burlison
# Josh McRoberts: In my opinion, he’s easily the best player and prospect in the prep Class of 2005. Despite heavy speculation from NBA sources that the draft isn’t out of the question for him this June, he told several media outlets that he’s “definitely” going to be at Duke next season. If that’s the case, mark him as a heavy favorite to be the National Freshman of the Year. He had 17 points and 12 rebounds and was chosen MVP while leading the East.
Scout.com--Frank Burlison
# Josh McRoberts: In my opinion, he’s easily the best player and prospect in the prep Class of 2005. Despite heavy speculation from NBA sources that the draft isn’t out of the question for him this June, he told several media outlets that he’s “definitely” going to be at Duke next season. If that’s the case, mark him as a heavy favorite to be the National Freshman of the Year. He had 17 points and 12 rebounds and was chosen MVP while leading the East.
| william wrote: |
| What about McRoberts? Why isn't he on the 1st team? Not talented enough,or is is poor coaching?
Scout.com--Frank Burlison # Josh McRoberts: In my opinion, he’s easily the best player and prospect in the prep Class of 2005. Despite heavy speculation from NBA sources that the draft isn’t out of the question for him this June, he told several media outlets that he’s “definitely” going to be at Duke next season. If that’s the case, mark him as a heavy favorite to be the National Freshman of the Year. He had 17 points and 12 rebounds and was chosen MVP while leading the East. |
Alright William, you've made your point. You don't like Duke or Coach K.
It's not like every Carolina recruit works out. The Heels have at least six McDonald's All-Americans on that squad, but only two made an All-ACC team.
And you do love K, so what? McRoberts wasn't just a McDonald's All American, he was rated number one in his class. You keep saying they have a talent problem, tell me where it is. Tell your readers which players on that team were not highly recruited. There aren't any, but you say just wait till next year because they have all these great guys coming in. Why are you so sure that the next crop of McDonald's guys for them will be so much better than the last crop, aside from always defending him and the program.
I don't think Dave loves Coach K. In fact, I think it's impossible for a fan of any non-Duke ACC team to "love" Coach K -- the man is a great coach but not a human being who inspires "love" from many people (despite what his commercials would have you believe). Dave is just expressing his personal opinion when he said that Duke should be better next year (come on, it's a reasonable opinion -- Duke will be one year older as a team and they have a banner recruiting class coming in. It's certainly not a ridiculous notion) -- he's not out to spread some pro-K, anti-UNC agenda here.
I second that, Jerry. william, it's not a black-or-white issue over here. Dave is a reasonable, grounded UVA fan with no axe to grind. In fact, most of the people that visit this site are reasonable fans that realize that not everybody is as pro-UNC or anti-Duke that you would like. And you know what? That's fine by me.
We have our fair share of Neil Fingleton's out there, and you would be crazy if you didn't want Josh McRoberts on your team.
We have our fair share of Neil Fingleton's out there, and you would be crazy if you didn't want Josh McRoberts on your team.
I'm a little peaved at Visser on the 3rd team but in the end you can't make a case for him to bump either center ahead of him. That stinks. That kid has made such progress that I'd like to see it recognized with a prestigious honor. Unfortunately the best entry passes Visser saw this year were missed 3's.
| Deacon wrote: |
| I'm a little peaved at Visser on the 3rd team but in the end you can't make a case for him to bump either center ahead of him. That stinks. That kid has made such progress that I'd like to see it recognized with a prestigious honor. Unfortunately the best entry passes Visser saw this year were missed 3's. |
You wouldn't have liked the local radio show then. They were pissed that Visser was chosen over Ben McCauley.
I think Visser deserved a third team nod, but no more. I mean somebody had to score on that team, right?
SFN put up our ballot just ahead of the official results on Monday:
http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2007/03/05/acc-awards-sfns-take/
I gave Crittenden ROY ahead of Costner. When I looked at the numbers (in ACC games only), I slotted McBob on the 3rd team. He had 3rd team numbers, and I don't remember him carrying his team to many (if any) wins. I am pleased that the media voting placed him no higher than 9th overall. The toughest call for me was the last slot on the 3nd team - Costner or Wright.
I question the sanity of anyone that didn't have the same ballot for first team honors.
http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2007/03/05/acc-awards-sfns-take/
I gave Crittenden ROY ahead of Costner. When I looked at the numbers (in ACC games only), I slotted McBob on the 3rd team. He had 3rd team numbers, and I don't remember him carrying his team to many (if any) wins. I am pleased that the media voting placed him no higher than 9th overall. The toughest call for me was the last slot on the 3nd team - Costner or Wright.
I question the sanity of anyone that didn't have the same ballot for first team honors.
| BJD95 wrote: |
| SFN put up our ballot just ahead of the official results on Monday:
http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2007/03/05/acc-awards-sfns-take/ I gave Crittenden ROY ahead of Costner. When I looked at the numbers (in ACC games only), I slotted McBob on the 3rd team. He had 3rd team numbers, and I don't remember him carrying his team to many (if any) wins. I am pleased that the media voting placed him no higher than 9th overall. The toughest call for me was the last slot on the 3nd team - Costner or Wright. I question the sanity of anyone that didn't have the same ballot for first team honors. |
Good stuff. I agree on Crittenton. He is simply the best and most important player on that team. No other freshman can make that claim. Plus, I always tend to round up with point guards, because they have the responsibility to lead their team and that doesn't always show up in stats.
I think you can make a case for dropping McBob altogether on the leadership angle- he has completely failed to dominate late in games when it counts, which for a team with a lot of close games makes a difference. (If he executes offensively late, Duke is 11-5 instead of 8-8.) But aside from scoring his numbers are excellent- easily first-team quality. He boards (4th in league), he blocks (3rd in league), he doesn't foul doing it (2nd best block-foul ratio in the league), he dishes (14th in league! as an F-C!). Hell, he's got the Duke's best A/TO ratio (23rd in league, best in league for F-Cs by a huge margin), and he's got the fifth best overall efficiency number in the league. And he's 21st in the league in scoring/40min- not great, but not exactly shabby. And he racks up these numbers despite his team having a lot fewer possessions/game than most of his competitors because they play a slower game. All these numbers would be up another 10% if Duke played at the same pace Carolina does.
So yeah, there are certainly reasons to dump on McRoberts, and arguably leave him off the All-ACC lists altogether- his pathetic post moves, resulting end-game ineffectiveness, and resulting Duke losses being first and foremost. No player in the league has been more needed in the clutch more this year, and no player in the league has failed in the clutch more. (Well, maybe DeMarcus Nelson.) But if you're dumping on his *numbers*, it is because you're only looking at his PPG and not the whole picture. (It is this whole picture, by the way, that is going to get him drafted in the first round regardless of where he is on the All-ACC lists.)
[And yes, I think you can make a case that the post-game ineffectiveness is a result of poor coaching on K's part, and that some of our roster problems are the results of poor recruiting choices. That doesn't excuse william for being an ass.]
So yeah, there are certainly reasons to dump on McRoberts, and arguably leave him off the All-ACC lists altogether- his pathetic post moves, resulting end-game ineffectiveness, and resulting Duke losses being first and foremost. No player in the league has been more needed in the clutch more this year, and no player in the league has failed in the clutch more. (Well, maybe DeMarcus Nelson.) But if you're dumping on his *numbers*, it is because you're only looking at his PPG and not the whole picture. (It is this whole picture, by the way, that is going to get him drafted in the first round regardless of where he is on the All-ACC lists.)
[And yes, I think you can make a case that the post-game ineffectiveness is a result of poor coaching on K's part, and that some of our roster problems are the results of poor recruiting choices. That doesn't excuse william for being an ass.]
Great post, tieguy. Yes, McRoberts may be the most difficult player in the league to assess. He has a lot of numbers, but none are individually that impressive. You also have to try to ignore all the hype he gets. No, he's not the All-American that some predicted, but that doesn't mean he sucks. And boy is it frustrating as a basketball fan to watch that guy not take advantage of his size and athleticism. I guess it's even worse for Duke fans.
Oh, and thanks for that MidMajority link. I had no idea he had those stats over there. That's awesome!
Oh, and thanks for that MidMajority link. I had no idea he had those stats over there. That's awesome!
I guess it's even worse for Duke fans.
Excruciating. I honestly think that if Josh had an effective post move, we'd be (at a minimum) 25-6 right now and on pace for a #2 seed, possibly as good as 28-3 (still hard to see us beating Carolina). And we'd probably be defending champs, or at least a returning FF team, to boot. Yargh.
Excruciating. I honestly think that if Josh had an effective post move, we'd be (at a minimum) 25-6 right now and on pace for a #2 seed, possibly as good as 28-3 (still hard to see us beating Carolina). And we'd probably be defending champs, or at least a returning FF team, to boot. Yargh.
It's incredibly painful for Duke fans. However, the reality of Coach K's tenure at Duke is that he has done a great job developing guards, but a pretty poor one of developing centers. I can't think of single decent center they had until Elton Brand (fortunately, Jay Bilas has made up for it as a commentator). At that point they seem to have learned the "development style" of:
1. Send him to the big man camp
2. Put everybody else on the perimeter so there's no one in his way (and no help defense)
OK, that's not totally true. They have usually become quite good defensively (including McRoberts). But offensively? Yuck.
1. Send him to the big man camp
2. Put everybody else on the perimeter so there's no one in his way (and no help defense)
OK, that's not totally true. They have usually become quite good defensively (including McRoberts). But offensively? Yuck.
| DMoore wrote: |
| It's incredibly painful for Duke fans. However, the reality of Coach K's tenure at Duke is that he has done a great job developing guards, but a pretty poor one of developing centers. I can't think of single decent center they had until Elton Brand (fortunately, Jay Bilas has made up for it as a commentator). At that point they seem to have learned the "development style" of:
1. Send him to the big man camp 2. Put everybody else on the perimeter so there's no one in his way (and no help defense) OK, that's not totally true. They have usually become quite good defensively (including McRoberts). But offensively? Yuck. |
Brand came in at an elite level from day one. A better example is Mark Alarie, but that was 20 years ago.
Actually, what about Shelden Williams? He's like the poster child for improvement. He started to come on defensively late in his freshman year and his offense progressed throughout his career.
But yes, a lot of other guys - Joey Beard, Shavlik Randolph, Erik Meek, Greg Newton, etc. - didn't progress.
Oh, another good example - Cherokee Parks. He really made himself into a damn good player.
Boozer showed improvement 13.0/13.3/18.2 ppg, but he came in at a pretty high level, like Brand.
| Martin wrote: |
| Boozer showed improvement 13.0/13.3/18.2 ppg, but he came in at a pretty high level, like Brand. |
That's a good one too. Not really a center, but he did get better throughout his career. Battier too, for that matter, although he was the high school player of the year.
Not really a center
I think that is part of the problem. He asks PFs to play center, and that frequently hinders them from developing to their full potential. Boozer was good, but not great, when he left Duke; it took taking him out of the C spot and putting him in the PF spot for him to become an all-star. I honestly think that as a complementary PF to a decent C, Josh could potentially become an NBA all-star, much like Boozer. We were all praying for Zoubek to develop a bit faster so that this could happen this year, but alas, it seems that it is not meant to be.
I think that is part of the problem. He asks PFs to play center, and that frequently hinders them from developing to their full potential. Boozer was good, but not great, when he left Duke; it took taking him out of the C spot and putting him in the PF spot for him to become an all-star. I honestly think that as a complementary PF to a decent C, Josh could potentially become an NBA all-star, much like Boozer. We were all praying for Zoubek to develop a bit faster so that this could happen this year, but alas, it seems that it is not meant to be.
Yes, McRoberts could be much more effective out of the high post, with a reliable big man in the low post. Cest la vie.
Back to the original topic-
Reason #whatever we're up to on why I hate the new expanded ACC: I don't even know who Jack McClinton of Miami is, but he's 3rd team all ACC. What the crap. I know the guys who vote on this sort of thing cover the league for a living - but how can (just for instance) a BC beat writer fairly evaluate the talent of the kids at Miami, FSU, or Clemson? How many times did he see these teams play?
Back to the original topic-
Reason #whatever we're up to on why I hate the new expanded ACC: I don't even know who Jack McClinton of Miami is, but he's 3rd team all ACC. What the crap. I know the guys who vote on this sort of thing cover the league for a living - but how can (just for instance) a BC beat writer fairly evaluate the talent of the kids at Miami, FSU, or Clemson? How many times did he see these teams play?
| Martin wrote: |
|
Reason #whatever we're up to on why I hate the new expanded ACC: I don't even know who Jack McClinton of Miami is, but he's 3rd team all ACC. What the crap. I know the guys who vote on this sort of thing cover the league for a living - but how can (just for instance) a BC beat writer fairly evaluate the talent of the kids at Miami, FSU, or Clemson? How many times did he see these teams play? |
Amen to the anti-expansion sentiment in generally. More specifically, BC beat writers (hell, Boston sports journalists in general) hardly watch BC play, so the answer to the rest of the league is 'never'.
What's gotta be irritating to dook fans about McRoberts is he seems to be able to get off his shot pretty well, variety of moves, etc. He may be the best at getting off a shot and the worst at hitting it when guarded.
McClinton seems to be this years player who scores for a bad team because someone has to. Some years this is a Clemson guy. He did hit a lot of threes, most in the league, I think. Unsure how many of these were when down by 20 or more. I can't dog out Miami too much, because they won some games late that I didn't think they would, but every game I saw them play they looked terrible.
McClinton seems to be this years player who scores for a bad team because someone has to. Some years this is a Clemson guy. He did hit a lot of threes, most in the league, I think. Unsure how many of these were when down by 20 or more. I can't dog out Miami too much, because they won some games late that I didn't think they would, but every game I saw them play they looked terrible.
| tieguy wrote: | ||
Amen to the anti-expansion sentiment in generally. More specifically, BC beat writers (hell, Boston sports journalists in general) hardly watch BC play, so the answer to the rest of the league is 'never'. |
Damn, beat me to the joke.
Sadly not a joke. The quality of coverage of sports in general in Boston is poor (the killer combo of very high volume and very low quality); but the coverage of college sports is abysmal- lots of people writing about it who clearly don't know or care, writing only when there is a 'big game' and exposing their ignorance every time they do. I mean, you know things are bad when there is an entire website whose primary reason for being is to embarass them, and does it often.
I kind of feel sorry for McRoberts. He probably grew up watching the Duke teams from 1999-2004 and thought that he was going to be on a high scoring offensive juggernaut and instead, he is on a team that has to dig deep just to make it to 60 points.
I am not necessarily arguing with the results that Duke is getting; they have played a tough schedule and all, but Herb Sendek got raked over the coals for his boring but effective style at NC State. Watching the current Duke team on offense provides about the same level of insomnia relief.
Posted by Dave at March 6, 2007 04:47 PM
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I am not necessarily arguing with the results that Duke is getting; they have played a tough schedule and all, but Herb Sendek got raked over the coals for his boring but effective style at NC State. Watching the current Duke team on offense provides about the same level of insomnia relief.
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